Squash Tail
Round Tail
Pintail
Swallow tail
Winged tail
Diamond tail
SQUASH TAIL - Essentially a square tail rounded out a little bit. Good tails for everyday surfboards. The increase in surface area gives you lift back in the tail. That's good for speed in slower waves and getting some projection out of your bottom turns and carves. The round corners of the squash help your turns roll a little more buttery versus the hard corner of a square tail. Also with that lift you can get some release in the lip and is good for airs.
Downside is when the waves get bigger and you are traveling at higher speeds that surface area in the tail will make it harder to sink the tail for control. Also they can be a little slower rail to rail than a round tail.
ROUND TAIL - Take a squash tail and remove the corners and have it go into a round point at the tail and that's pretty much a round tail. Removing that surface area gives you one long rail line all the way to the tip of the tail. This elongated rail engagement gives you hold and the reduced tail area lets the tail go into the water more giving you control. That is why you usually see round tails ridden in better than average surf where you want your board to hold confidently at higher speeds. As well, with all that surface area being removed from the tail area the board is going to be more sensitive and react quicker to direction changes and go rail to rail quicker.
PINTAILS - extreme version of a round tail. You'll See these a lot on step ups and guns where you need to really reduce the surface area because you are traveling at a much higher speed and you need maximum hold and control in the wave.
Downside is when the waves are smaller and slower that reduction in surface area is not going to provide as much lift. The tail will sink easier and that will reduce your speed and you will lose projection out of your turns.
SWALLOW TAIL - Basically a square tail with a piece cut out from the middle creating 2 angled points at the corner of the tail. These tails have the surface area of a squash tail but that sharp corner gives you an abrupt pivot point on the tail to turn sharply. The area removed from the center lets water go around both sides of the corner which gives you “bite”.
Because of the width of the tail, similar to the squash, you still get some benefit of the additional surface area providing you some lift. So the Swallow tail lets you turn sharper off the corner but secures the tail better than the squash. You will typically see these tails on shortboards for hollow curvy waves where you want more control than a squash. You will also see swallow tails on a lot of Fishes. This is because fishes have such wide tails and all that surface area needs to be controlled so it doesn't “wash out” easily. So removing that area in the tail reduces the surface area and lets water around both sides of the point giving it control.
Downside is these tails do not have as much projection out of turns compared to the squash. Relatively speaking, this is because the “bite” you get from swallows and the hard corners that increase your pivot can reduce some projection.
WINGED TAILS - These tails have a wing cut into the side of the outline typically by the fin. This lets you have an original or even wider than normal outline, but then pulls in the tail behind the wing area abruptly for added response and bite. When you have a wing it creates a “break” in the outline which creates a “pivot point” that is usually coordinated with the fin placement. The second byproduct of using the wing is behind the wing toward the tail is now a tighter outline from the reduction in surface area. This will create “bite” from the tail sinking into the water more from a reduction in lift and planing because of the reduction of surface area. So overall you end up with a pivot point and some bite back in the tail area.Typically you see these in high performance fishes, grovelers, and hybrids.
Downside is usually in bigger surf where the “break” in the outline from the wing can cause too much looseness and you start to lose control compared to if you had no wing at all and your whole rail line can remain engaged.
DIAMOND TAIL - if you take a square tail and a pin tail and combine it …you have a diamond tail. You get the lift of the square tail and a pivot point of the corner of the square tail. But, you have additional length from tip to tail. So essentially you are keeping the outline a little wider back there for lift but you get some additional hold from the point of the tail and the additional length of the board. The main thing about the diamond tail is that to make the shape of the diamond you come up the rail x amount of inches and cut in the corners on each side of the board. What this does is create a pivot point further up the board which creates a shorter rail line relative to the overall length of the board. This can create the feeling of the board “surfing shorter” than say the rail line of a round tail at the same length. So this is a really cool benefit to diamond tails.
Downside is these tails are not categorically definitive as far as a mainstream functionality. They usually are a strategic part of a surfboard design where you want some lift and want a board to feel and surf shorter than the actual length. They do make the board so you can almost never stand it up on its tail. They are unorthodox in general and don't resell well.
Let's take a look at the Mayhem versus the Pyzel. By looking at these two templates over lapped we can start to break down how they are slightly different, therefore will ride a little differently, and theorize where one fin might work better than the other.
Ok so first the specs that Futures gives us on these two fins.
Mayhem Large: Height = 4.67 - Base = 4.60 - Surface Area = 15.85 - no rake degree
Pyzel Large: Height = 4.64 - Base = 4.65 - Surface Area = 16.00 - no rake degree
So when we look at the two fins overlapped with the Pyzel behind the Mayhem, we can see the longer base in the front of fin that the Pyzel has at 4.65, versus the Mayhem at 4.60. Also the leading edge of the Pyzel is more forward than the Mayhem. Interestingly enough we don't see anything else sticking out from the Pyzel sitting behind the Mayhem.
Now let's overlap them with the Pyzel on top of the Mayhem. The main thing we see is all the missing area on the trailing edge of the Pyzel. Also, look at the area of the tip of the Pyzel, which is a lot narrower than the Mayhem. Note that the tips of both fins end in pretty much the same spot. So similar rake, degree wise.
Based on this comparison, how do you think these fins will ride differently on the same board?
First off, as a generalization, both these templates would be good fit for a medium tail rocker board. Both fins have a pretty good length of base so we're going to get a good amount of drive. They are pretty upright, which means we're going to get some good pivot. So, both of these fins are going to supply some drive but all the while turn in a pretty tight radius.
So with those differences, where is the scenario of application for these two different templates? I would say if your style is carving, hitting the lip hard, and wanting to feel locked in through your turns then go with the Mayhem. This is because it has a fatter tip and more surface area on the trailing edge which gives it more hold through turns. If you want your board to release at the end of your turn, give way a little easier in the lip, and react a little quicker then I would go with the Pyzel. This is because the Pyzel has more surface area in the leading edge and less surface area in the trailing edge. This distribution of the surface area makes for more area forward, which is looser. The tip of the Pyzel is narrower which releases easier and holds a little less longer which helps it react faster.
Foregoing rocker, there are some more subtle things between these two templates that you could take into consideration depending on the board itself. As an example, if you are riding a wider squash tail you have lift from the increase in surface area. When you have lift in the tail you might need more control so the tail feels more locked in and doesn't release as easily. So a fin with a fatter tip and more surface area on the trailing edge could hold through the turns better and help remain positive in the lip. Where a round pin has a lot less surface area which means the tail is going to sink into the water more. This, in and of itself, will give the board more hold and control. So you can use the template with a narrow tip because the pin tail will be gripping more and you wont need a fatter tip for the control and hold.
This also plays out similarly when you might be riding a board that is a higher volume relative to your weight. You would probably want the fatter tip template so it holds through the turns and maintains drive. This is because you are sitting higher up in the water and your weight is not sinking the rail effectively for hold, control, and harnessing energy. Conversely, when you are in the closest threshold of your weight to board volume ratio, you are using your body weight to properly sink your rail which gives you hold and control. With this you could get away with the narrower tip because you're getting enough hold from sinking your rail properly.
These are just a few of the variables you can take into consideration when looking at fins. As you can see surfboards and fins are multidimensional and are always in a dance of give and take. It's good to investigate to find the balance and what will work optimally for you and your board.
Fins can, and do, make a difference. There are varying degrees to which you can investigate and make changes to your gear. What I love about changing your fins is that the potential to find some percent of improvement exists! Knowing this I created the BTD Deal at USEDSURF. It is a 30 day Buy, Try, and Decide Program here at Usedsurf so you can now buy a fin set and have up to 30 days to decide if you want to keep it, or return it, for a full refund! You can't lose!!! https://usedsurf.com/buy-try-decide/
You can also hit me up with any questions at https://usedsurf.com/ask-the-fin-guru/
There is so much to unpack when it comes to fins. Hopefully this has you thinking about things fins wise. I will keep going with these blog post and hopefully i can shed some light on this whole other world related to the way your board reacts and performs with different fin templates.
Thank you,
Fin Guru
]]>I am going to give you 5 Things to look at when choosing a surfboard fin for your surfboard. These five things are the base length, the degree of rake, the tip size, the height, and lastly the surface area. Ultimately the shaper or surfer of the fin template that you are looking at uses these 5 things to arrange the surface area in such a way as to compliment the surfboard and achieve the desired result. So let's get right into it shall we?!
Now ultimately you want to do 2 things when deciding what fin to use, or would be better than what you're currently riding in your surfboard. The first thing is knowing what the general rocker/concave profile is of the board you're riding or buying. This is mainly in the tail rocker area. Is it a lower rocker, medium rocker, or a high rocker board? Does it have a deep concave? Or is the concave kinda mellow? Does it have a lot of vee? I find out this information by reading the board description from the shapers website and looking at where the board model seems to fall, rocker wise, into the spectrum of the offerings from the shaper. “This model is a great everyday shortboard with a medium nose rocker and a medium tail rocker with a light concave.” is an example of a description where you can see that it falls into the medium rocker part of the spectrum. The other thing you can do is ask the shaper directly if you're working with one.
The second thing I look at is what I wish I had more of when I am riding the board. Do I find myself wishing I had a little more drive? Or more pivot from my turns? Based on that i can look at what fin i am riding, look at these 5 things and compare the numbers to another fin possibility hoping to improve my boards performance.
The two main things I look at are the Base and the Rake. I feel like these two parts of the fin are constantly in a dance with each other. So let's look at the base first. The longer the base the longer the distance the water has to travel before it can pivot around the fin. So typically, the longer the base the more drive. The shorter the base, the less drive. But here is where it gets interesting because if you have a long base and a lot of rake that will make the fin too tracky. So a long base needs to be countered with a rake that is more upright so that you can get some pivot and break up that “tracky” feel. Conversely, if you have a lot of rake then your turns are going to be more drawn out. So the way you counter that is to shorten the base so the water doesn't have to travel as long to rotate around the fin. So this part is a balancing act for sure depending on what type of wave or board the designer of the fin has in mind.
So as you can see those two components are intertwined crucially and to me it's the basis of figuring out the main characteristic of the fin template. So the rule of thumb is the longer the base the more drive and the shorter the base the less drive. Rake wise, the more upright the fin the more pivot with tighter turns you get with a little less drive. And the more rake the fin has the more drawn out your turns will be and you'll get a little more drive.
Now the third thing i look at is the size and shape of the tip of the fin. The fatter the tip the more the fin will remain engaged through your turns. So if you are surfing a powerful wave or have a style of carving and wanting to be locked-in through your turns then a fatter tip is better. If you want to get a little more release at the end of your turn or in the lip then a narrower tip will achieve that result. So based on the wave, your style, and level of expertise choose accordingly.
As for the height..the taller the fin the more hold and the shorter the height the less hold. I don't look at this too much but it can factor-in to a small percent.
The last thing I take note of is the surface area. This is tricky because it comes down to the shape of the fin and how the surface area is distributed. But the higher the surface area the more drive and the less the surface area the less drive. But I look at this with a small percent of emphasis because the base, rake, and tip shape will have the highest effect in my opinion. So I note the height and the surface area but it only makes up a small percent of my decision making.
A lot of these measurements can be found on the manufactures webpages. Fcs has a cool page with all this info. Unfortunately Futures has a lot of the info but doesn't supply the degree of rake on their fin specs. But Captain fin has the rake and I believe NVS does as well. So geek out and check out some info on the manufacturer websites.
Now that I have covered the 5 things I look at to choose a fin I would be remiss if I didn't do a quick overview of the board style that would coincide with a certain fin. So lower rocker boards you want some pivot. So fins that or more upright (less rake) is the best choice. The board is flatter so it has its own speed but since there is less curve in the rocker you need pivot from the fin.
Medium rocker boards usually want a fin with a pretty decent base and start to rake back a little more. This is because the rocker curve is increasing and you need to leverage that curve with some drive which will come from a longer base. I will say that I notice a lot of fins these days that are for these types of boards seem to have a theme of having a pretty long base for drive but are still kind of upright for pivot. Like the Tpatterson, Pyzel, and Mayhem to name a few.
Now a higher rocker board usually likes some rake. The rake leverages the increase in curve of the rocker. But to make sure it still rotates well the bases typically need to shorten a little. This is because if you have a lot of rake and a long base it can be a bit tracky, feel locked in, and the board won't respond quickly, So even though more rake draws out your turns there is still a need to get a little rotation for response so you will see bases a little shorter in this category. A DHD, JS, or the FCS Accelerator are good examples of this type of fin.
Ultimately these are generalities. The boards rocker, concaves, style of the rider, size of the wave, power of the wave, and shape of the waves will all be part of the determining factors of what fin will work best.
Hope this helps you start to understand fins a little more. It is a deep rabbit hole to go down in some ways so i will keep coming at you with the info. Next. I will go into breaking things down more for exact scenarios. Don't forget to check out Usedsurf’s Buy Try and Decide fin program. You now will have 30 days to try the fin you purchase at Usedsurf and if you don't like it send it back for a refund. That info is HERE.
]]>When someone comes to us that is ready to progress to a hard board we ask two main questions. This is important because surfing means different things to different people and where they want to end up with their surfing is relevant when making this next purchase.
The first question is "Where do you want to end up eventually in your surfing? Do you want to...."
Once we know this answer we move on to the next important question, "How well did you do on the soft top you were riding?"
We need to know this because depending on where you want to eventually end up in your surfing, and how well you did on the soft top, will determine the ideal parameters for you to stay within dimension wise on your next board. An example would be let's say you want to eventually shortboard (question 1) but you just did "ok" getting to your feet every time on your 8 foot soft top (question 2). Then we know that we should recommend a board that is as close to the volume of the 8 foot soft top, because you still need plenty of foam to catch waves and have stability for standing up easily in order to continue your progress.
On the other hand, if you decided that you want to longboard (question 1) and you did just "ok" getting to your feet every time (question 2) then it is an easier transition because longboards inherently have similar volume, or even more volume then the 8 foot soft top.
What are surfboard dimensions and how do I use them?
There are 4 dimensions everyone uses to determine the overall scope of a board. That is length, width, thickness, and volume(when available). As an example, the 8 foot Wavestorm and 8 foot Catch Surf Log have dimensions roughly 8'0" x 22.50" x 3.25" and 86 liters of volume. The length, width, thickness, and shape of the outline creates a 3 dimensional object of foam(the surfboard). That foam has buoyancy and that buoyancy acts as floatation against your body's weight. More foam, more buoyancy. So the bigger the dimensions, the more foam, the more buoyancy... and vice versa. With the advent of the CNC shaping machines that a lot of shapers use, the software can render an overall volume of the 3 dimensional object and that is where we get our "volume" from. And this acts as the "4th" dimension you can use in choosing a board.
We use all of these dimensions together in unison to help us zero in on what we can expect from the surfboard and the characteristics of the surfboard. Below are some general characteristics of a board in relation to its length, width, and thickness.
Shorter is harder and not as easy to catch waves but is quicker to maneuver. Longer is easier and catches waves easier but is slower to maneuver.
Wider is more stable, forgiving and has more lift but is slower to react. Narrow is more sensitive and less forgiving but reacts quicker.
Thicker is more forgiving and catches waves easier but is less sensitive. Thinner is less forgiving and doesn't catch waves as easily but is more sensitive.
In Conclusion
So, there are a couple questions that need answering. As well, there are some things dimension wise, to take into consideration in order to determine the best case scenario in selecting your hard board. Don't worry because we mapped out a variety of possibilities for you and feel confident we can guide you to your ideal hard board.
First thing first, let's answer question Number one.
I want to eventually shortboard:
How well did you do on the soft top?
It's so easy, I want to start doing better turns.
The thing to keep in mind here is foam is still your friend. If you get a new board that is too short, narrow, or thin it will be too dramatic of a contrast from the floatation you were used to on the Wavestorm. This will make it harder to catch waves and stand up easily. On the other hand, if you get too much foam you will catch waves easily at first, but as you get better you will be hindered by trying to maneuver a bigger board.
Remember the liters on a Wavestorm is 86 liters so the range given above decreases your liters by roughly 40% (almost half). So it won't be as easy but it is part of evolving into eventually shortboarding.
About the Fish design - A fish design with a wide swallow tail would not be recommended. The reason for this is wider tails typically are not as easy to make tight turns and therefore do not lend itself toward the steps of evolving into shortboarding. There are some fish designs that have a tighter, more pulled in swallow tail. One of those would work but we recommend staying away from the big wide swallowtails.
Fins -Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Coming off a soft top - I catch the wave and stand up on the open face. I stand up every time but just go down the line with a little bit of turning.
The thing to keep in mind here is foam is still your friend. If you get a new board and it is too small it will be too dramatic of a contrast from the floatation you were used to on the Wavestorm.
Remember the liters on a Wavestorm is 86 liters. You will be decreasing volume substantially so mind your dimensions.
About the Fish design - A fish design with a wide swallow tail would not be recommended. The reason for this is wider tails typically are not as easy to turn tightly. There are some fish designs that have a tighter, more pulled in swallow tail. One of those would work but recommend staying away from the big wide swallowtails that come on your typical wide tail fish design.
Fins - Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Coming off a soft top - I can catch the wave on the open face and can go down the line half the time.
The thing to keep in mind here is foam is still your friend. If you get a new board and it is too small it will be too dramatic of a contrast from the floatation you were used to on the Wavestorm. We still want you to catch waves and get to where you are going down the line every time.
Remember the liters on a Wavestorm is 86 liters so you will be shaving off 30 liters and that will be a big difference and you will have to get used to that..but you are ready!
About the Fish design - A fish design with a wide swallow tail would not be recommended. The reason for this is wider tails typically are not as easy to turn tightly. There are some fish designs that have a tighter, more pulled in swallow tail. One of those would work but recommend staying away from the big wide swallowtails that come on your typical wide tail fish design.
Fins - Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Coming off the soft top - I Can stand up in the whitewash easily but I am having trouble catching and standing up on the open face.
So for this situation we recommend foam and lots of it. You're at that spot that is most tricky, which is standing up on the wave face before it breaks. This just takes time and perseverance. The Wavestorm 8 foot soft top is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3” and 86 liters. So getting something as close to that would be best. A couple examples would be board companies like Stewart Surfboards, Shift Surfboards, or Torq. Stewart has 8ft funboard that are around 67liters. Shift Surfboards (available here at usedsurf) has a model Called the Spindrift with dimensions 8’0” x 22.0” x 3.0” and 59 liters. Torq has a MOD FUN V+ (extra volume) with dimensions like 8’2” x 22.88” x 3.25” and 70.5 liters.
Ultimately, we wouldn't recommend straying too far from the length of the Wavestorm. Almost all non soft top boards, even at 8 feet in length, will not have the amount of volume the Wavestorm has at that same length.
Remember the shorter you go the more crucial it is you make up the volume in the width and thickness. An example would be getting a board that is 7’8”. If that 7’8'' is 21.75” wide and 2.88” thick, it will be a lot less foam than a 7’8” x 22.0” x 3.0”. So, both are 7’8'' but one is going to be easier to catch waves and stand up on than the other….the one with more foam! So mind your dimensions.
About the Fish design - A fish design with a wide swallow tail would not be recommended. The reason for this is wider tails typically are not as easy to turn tightly. There are some fish designs that have a tighter, more pulled in swallow tail. One of those would work but recommend staying away from the big wide swallowtails that come on your typical wide tail fish design.
Fins - Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Riding the whitewash still but I want a new board.
So for this situation we recommend foam and lots of it. The Wavestorm 8 foot soft top is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and 86 liters. So getting something as close to that would be best. But that can be tricky. Infinity Surfboards has a model called the “secret weapon” with dimensions like 8' x 23" x 3 7/8". That would match the volume of the soft top and actually probably exceed it. But those boards new are expensive. Sometimes you can find them used though. The Torq MOD FUN V+ (extra volume) with dimensions like 8’2” x 22.88” x 3.25” and is 70 liters could be a good board. As well, you have the Stewart funboard that is 8’0” x 23” x 3.18” which does not have the liters but has got to be close to 70 liters.
The other alternative is going to a longboard. More foam there for sure. If you are wanting to go to a shortboard eventually though the longboard might not be a good idea.
There is another soft top like the Catch Surf Log. This board has similar dimensions to the Wavestorm but has a more refined foil and rocker than the Wavestorm. It is the same Liters.
About the Fish design - A fish design with a wide swallow tail would not be recommended. The reason for this is wider tails typically are not as easy to turn tightly. There are some fish designs that have a tighter, more pulled in swallow tail. One of those would work but recommend staying away from the big wide swallowtails that come on your typical wide tail fish design.
Fins - Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Coming off the soft top - I am good sticking with the midlength… I just want a better ride.
So if you are thinking you are good sticking with the Mid-length we need to determine how well you did on the 8’ Wavestorm. Coming off the Wavestorm you will be hard pressed to find anything with the same volume of 86 liters. The only exception is a board like the Infinity secret weapon. Those boards are thick and wide. But most boards, even 8 feet in length, will not have the same liters as the Wavestorm - they will all be thinner and possibly narrower on average. So if you did good on the Wavestorm, then that will point you to the low side of the volume spectrum. And if you did so-so on the Wavestorm, weigh more than average, or are not that athletic then we can go to the higher volume side of the spectrum.
So on the high side of the volume spectrum we have new boards like the Torq MOD FUN V+ (extra volume) with dimensions like 8’2” x 22.88” x 3.25” and is 70 liters. As well, you have the Stewart funboard that is 8’0” x 23” x 3.18” which does not have the liters but has got to be close to 70.
Then on the medium side of the spectrum you have the CI mid-length which is 7’10” x 22” x 3” and 57 liters. As well you have Usedsurf’s Shift Spindrift model that is 8’0” x 22” x 3” and 59 Liters
On the lower side of the spectrum you can go down to 7’6” in length . Maybe you can go shorter in length but that would be if you are lightweight and very athletic. If not, we would recommend sticking around 7’6” in length and 47 to 59 liters. Widths around 21.50” to 22.50” and thickness 2.75” to 3.0”.
A Final Tip When going Shorter - Just remember all the dimensions work in unison to give you an overall volume. So if you go shorter you need to make sure you maintain volume by having a good healthy width and the thickness. Otherwise your volume will be too low and it will be much harder to catch waves and stand up.
Fins - Thruster (3 fins) , 2+1 (2 small side bites with large center fin), or quad fin(4 fins) set up would be fine. Any of those will be stable enough and not work against you.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0 in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
Coming off a Soft top - I want to longboard
I want to longboard and…
I want to eventually become a noserider, learn to cross step, and noseride all the time?
These type of Boards:
We would recommend not going narrower than 22.0” for width and no thinner than 2.75” for thickness.
There are some exceptions to the single fin part of this board. Companies like Walden, Stewart, Infinity, and Takayama, to name a few, make 2+1 longboards that are still good nose riders. The 2+1 fin set up is made up of 2 smaller “side bite” fins and one center box for a center fin. These boards are typically a little bit more “performance” oriented than the “classic” style single fins. They are usually glassed a little lighter so they are more maneuverable. So if you're looking for a fair amount of performance but still want to nose ride as well, these types of boards would be the go.
Fins for longboards - For single fins, the general rule of thumb is you get the fin in inches to what the board is in length.
For 2+1 you have the sidebites up front and the general rule of thumb is the fin is usually 7.0”, 7.5”, or 8.0”.
Leash for a longboard - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” in width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
I want to ride the nose occasionally and also do plenty of turns from the tail?
Typically these boards will be the 2+1 setups. The 2+1 fin set up is made up of 2 smaller “side bite” fins and one center box for a center fin. 2+1 boards can still be good nose riders but these boards are typically more “performance” oriented than the “classic” style single fins. They will have more of a conventional rocker that is geared toward turning better from the tail. Examples of these types of board are models by companies like Walden, Stewart, Infinity, and Takayama, to name a few.
So if you're looking for a fair amount of performance but still want to nose ride as well, these types of boards would be the go. We would recommend not going narrower than 22.0” for width and no thinner than 2.75” for thickness.
Fins for longboards - For 2+1 you have the sidebites up front and the general rule of thumb is the fin is usually 7.0”, 7.5”, or 8.0”.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area..
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters
I wont surf that often or it is strictly seasonal and you just want to go out and have fun and make sure that you catch plenty of waves.
Ease and fun is the goal here. If you're surfing a mushy spot on the regular you could get away with a Single Fin longboard. If your regular spot is a beach break that is steeper we would recommend a 2+1 as they have a more conventional rocker. The 2+1 fin set up is made up of 2 smaller “side bite” fins and one center box for a center fin.
The next important part is the dimensions. A board 9’0” to 9’6” with a width of 23” wide and a thickness of 3” would be ideal. If you are a lighter surfer or are athletic you could go a little narrower or/and thinner. An example of a board for this type of person would be 9’0” x 22.50” x 2.88”. On the opposite side of the spectrum, for a heavier non athletic person, a board 9’4” x 23” x 3.13” would be good. We would recommend not going narrower than 22.0” for width and no thinner than 2.75” for thickness.
Fins for longboards - For single fins, the general rule of thumb is you get the fin in inches to what the board is in length.
For 2+1 you have the sidebites up front and the general rule of thumb is the fin is usually 7.0”, 7.5”, or 8.0”.
Leash - we recommend getting a leash that is roughly the length of the board. Too short of a leash and you run the risk of pulling the board toward your body when you fall off the nose area.
NOTE - Remember, the narrower the width the more sensitive and less forgiving the board. The thinner the board the more sensitive and less forgiving it will ride. As well, thinner boards have less foam and therefore typically make it harder to catch waves. Coming off a Wavestorm we do not recommend going narrower than 22.0” width and ideally would recommend a thickness of 3”. If you did very well on the soft top and are athletic you could go down to no more than 2.75” thick. For reference the typical Wavestorm is 8’0” x 22.50” x 3.25” and is 86 liters.
]]>Name - Connor
Height: 6'0" |
Weight: 165 lbs |
Board Brand: Aipa |
Board Model: Dark Twin |
Board Length: 5'10" |
Board Width: 19 1/2" |
Board Thickness: 2 9/16" |
Board Volume: 30.3 |
Fin System: Futures |
Fin(s) currently riding: CI AMK Keel Fin Set |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. I really like the twin fin feeling of my aipa dark twin. The fins im currently using provide a lot of drive on steeper waves but I would like a little tighter turns on open faces. Fin Guru response: Hi Connor - so I literally have been going through this same problem myself. I started off with the NVS Doc template because it worked good in a different board I had with a more pulled in pin tail. Then I tried the Panda twin. Both of them didn't have enough drive through my cutbacks. So I switched to the Christenson Keel. Problem solved, but not for long! I had drive and speed. But, then I noticed it wasn't drawing the line I wanted to take. I wanted to get tighter arcs. Then I found the fin ... The Britt Merrick Twin. I put it in and I had drive but it drew a much tighter arc. I kept riding it and man, I am loving my board more and more each time I ride it!! So the AM keel has a base of 6.46 and height of 5.15 the Christenson Keel that i was riding has a base of 6.38 and height of 5.12 - so pretty similar So the other thought was the EN by Futures - more upright and good size for that template but the surface area is only 22.75 where the keel you are riding has surface area of 25.54 The Britt Merrick (BMT) has base of 5.77 height of 5.39 and surface area of 23.58 (more than the EN)
i really think this fin has done a good job of being somewhere in the middle to where it has drive but still carves tight turns - This is the fin template i would recommend checking out for sure! Plus we have the BUY TRY and DECIDE 30 day return policy now. Read about it here https://usedsurf.com/buy- https://usedsurf.com/futures- Hope that helps Remember it is wise to try New things Stay Calm and Balanced my friend, Fin Guru - want to ask me a question? - CLICK HERE The Fins mentioned in this post https://usedsurf.com/futures- https://usedsurf.com/futures-
https://usedsurf.com/captain- |
Robert Ask:
Board Brand: Channel Islands |
Board Model: OG Flyer |
Board Length: 5'7" |
Board Width: 18 1/2" |
Board Thickness: 2 1/4" |
Board Volume:25.5 |
Fin System: FCS II |
Fin(s) currently riding: FCS II MB PC Carbon 2020 Tri-Quad Set LARGE |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. Hi There, I am planning a trip down from LA soon. I have an OG Flyer that I settled on the MB's in large after trying out a ton with you guys over a year ago. Since CI has suspended its board demos I thought I might try a new tri-fin set up since I will hold off on a new board till then. I would like more response backside, and release off the top. Drive is also very important. I am 58 but trying to surf like I am still 25 and hoping to land an air reverse soon. Any insights would be much appreciated. FIN GURU RESPONSE: Hi there Robert, Lets get that air reverse goin!!! The Mayhem could be a touch large for your weight (160 lbs). The Mayhem medium are definitely too small though. I would recommend Pyzel medium. It is smaller than the Mayhem but has a good base for drive that is a little less than the Mayhem. But, it has the narrow tip and that will give it more release. So in my opinion for your weight and size you might be over finned by a touch and i would recommend the Pyzel mediums for your drive, pivot, and release. Hope that helps And Remember..it is good to explore new things. Stay Calm and Stay Balanced. The Fin Guru if you would like to ask the Fin Guru for Guidance CLICK HERE The Fins mentioned in this post are: |
Name - Ivan
Height: 5-10 |
Weight: 130 lbs |
Board Brand: Lost |
Board Model: Sub Driver 2.0 Light Speed |
Board Length: 5'7 |
Board Width: 18.50 |
Board Thickness: 2.25 |
Board Volume: 25 L |
Fin System: Futures |
Fin(s) currently riding: Tried Futures P4 |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. I recently downsized from 26/27 liters after wanting to try and make my turns sharper and overall better. I'm mainly riding this board in 2-3 ft (traditional) surf. I tried a few fins, such as the P4 legacy and P4 Vapor core. They felt alright, but I was just looking for a more professional opinion on what kind of fin would optimize my surfing progression. Let me know what you think, thanks FIN GURU RESPONSE: Hi there Ivan Yeah so the P4 is such a unique fin. It has all this surface area in the fronts for drive and then the smaller trailing fin for pivot. It seems like that template either match up really well with a certain kind of board and rocker or they are just work alright (like you said). You have a high performance model and I'm thinking it's better to get a fin set with drive from the base and then have the template be upright for tighter turns. Those templates would be the John John, T Patterson, Mayhem, Pyzel, and Hayden HS. The only problem is the Tpatterson, Hayden, and Pyzel will be too big for your weight. So that leaves you with 2 options. And that would be the Mayhem medium and the John John small. The Mayhem medium run small compared to other mediums. And the John John small runs a little bigger than most smalls. Now the only X factor is your weight vs the board volume. If I calculate your weight for volume, depending on your skill level and what type of waves you're riding, you could go lower in volume. But you're smart by taking steps to downsize your volume as i imagine you are progressing in skill but are not yet there to ride the "expert" volume. Point being, when we don't sink our rail as well because of our weight vs the volume of the board, we need to rely our fins more. Soooo....it is a toss up between the John John Small and the Mayhem med. I would go with the Mayhem med since it is a Lost board and it would seem fitting to match the Shapers fins with Shapers board. Hope that helps! All the Best, Fin Guru If you want to ask the Fin Guru a Question CLICK HERE The fins mentioned in this Post https://usedsurf.com/futures-mayhem-balanced/ https://usedsurf.com/futures-fins-john-john-techfl... |
Name - ZACH
Height: 5'7" |
Weight: 140 lbs |
Board Brand: Lost |
Board Model: Driver 2.0 |
Board Length: 5'9" |
Board Width: 18.63" |
Board Thickness: 2.32" |
Board Volume: 26L |
Fin System: Futures |
Fin(s) currently riding: Jordy med |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. I want tighter turns board feels stiff when turning Fin Guru Response: Hi Zach - what your saying makes sense and I attached a photo to show you why (below). The Jordy has too much rake. In the picture I compared it to the Mayhem med. You can see in the pic the Mayhem is way more upright. That gives you pivot. So I would do the Mayhem medium or the Pyzel medium. They both have a solid base for the drive but are upright for pivot. The Pyzel has a narrower tip then the Mayhem so that one would have a little more release on turns release where the Mayhem should hold through the carve a little better. Cool - hope that helps All the Best, Fin Guru if you want to ask the Fin Guru A question CLICK HERE Fins mentioned in this Post https://usedsurf.com/futures-jordy-smith-medium-ne... https://usedsurf.com/futures-mayhem-balanced/ https://usedsurf.com/futures-pyzel-medium-tri-new-... |
Name - MARK B.
Height: 5'9" |
Weight: 155lbs |
Board Brand: Roberts |
Board Model: White Diamond |
Board Length: 5'9" |
Board Width: 19 5/8" |
Board Thickness: 2 3/8" |
Board Volume: 31L |
Fin System: Futures |
Fin(s) currently riding: Ho Stevie Mediums Honey Comb Thrusters |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. I have been wanting more drive and tighter turns. I was considering chucking on some large, neutral rake side fins with less hold like the ando blackstix and keeping a medium center fin....but wanted to get some advice before handing over the $$. Thanks a lot! Fin Guru Response: Hi there Gabriel - hope all is well. Ok well More drive and tighter turns equals long running base and upright template. So a neutral is gonna be a little less base and a little bit more raked back. I do remember Roberts Template having a long base and being very upright. So You can definitely get away with combo-ing up fins that are bigger in the front and smaller in the center. The Merrick template does that and the Pivots do that as well. If you have fins laying around to mess around with that could be a good call. But If you don't and you need to get a set then i would lean towards The HS large, Legacy Pivots, and then maybe the Mayhems. The Hayden have a long base and are very upright and that means drive and tight arcs! The Generation foil will give ya a little extra lift when its smaller as well but, could maybe work against you when it gets bigger. The Pivots are good as well. I just had a guy who was surfing the Baltic sea with short tight interval windswell. He wanted what you did and this is just what he sent me: "I could get some medium neo glass reactors off a friend and was able to take them for a spin yesterday. Waves were super small and weak but from what I can tell after just one session fins felt great. Turns felt kinda efortless. Before I had to drive quite hard through turns to fit them into the shitty waves over here. Having a fin with more flex felt good too. I think I'm gonna stay on the reactors for now. Maybe I'll try the hayden fins too at some point. Even thought about putting the large side fins in and swapping the center for a medium. For now I keep the reactors in for a while." Now these are FCS2 But they are very similar to the Legacy Pivots by Futures. Both templates from each company is based on the old Kelly Slater k2.1 Template. Both companies templates having a smaller trailing fin. The next is Mayhem template. It is stiffer cause of the carbon but the template is upright(but not as much as the Hayden) and has a solid base for drive. This is one of my favorite templates for dive and pivot. But, this might be a better fin for boards with more rocker. But I have used it in lower rocker boards with some success. Hope this info Helps! I think If you go with one of the first 2 suggestions you'll see an improvement. All the Best, Fin Guru if you want to ask the Fin Guru a question CLICK HERE Fins mentioned in this post https://usedsurf.com/futures-mayhem-balanced/ |
Name - MARK B.
Height: 5'6" |
Weight: 150 lbs |
Board Brand: Channel Islands |
Board Model: NeckBeard 2 |
Board Length: 5'6" |
Board Width: 19.0" |
Board Thickness: 2 5/16" |
Board Volume: 26.8 |
Fin System: FCS 2 |
Fin(s) currently riding: FCS Carver PC carbon air core Medium |
Please describe below what it is you are wanting more of out of your current fin/board experience (example - more drive, tighter turns, more release....etc) or any other questions you might have about fins or fin systems. Thank You. My current fins feel a little too stiff possibly. I have used the Neckbeard before (idk what fins) and it felt very loose and playful like loose skateboard trucks. I bought my neckbeard and they suggested stiffer so i bought my current ones. Feels like my fins lock up my board somehow. Want more loose and playfull like the NB2 is supposed to be but able to hold on hard bottom turns. I'll probably save my current fins for bigger stronger days. FIN GURU RESPONSE: Hi there Mark. So yeah I could see the Carvers being too much rake and not giving you any pivot. The Neck Beard (original had vee out the tail) which makes it kinda more rail to rail. Where the NB2 i think is straight single which gives lift but also can feel a touch tracky with too much fin or rake. Anyway what you are describing sounds right on par with too much fin or too much rake. When a rocker is low to medium and concave with little to no vee out the tail you need some pivot out of the fin since you are not getting the curve out of the rocker. So i would go with the AM medium. The Merrick template has a little bit of rake but the secret sauce is in the fact that the trailing fin is smaller than the sides. So you get the drive from the fronts but you get the pivot from the smaller trailing fin. One of our employees described the NB2 as one of the best high performance small wave boards he had ever ridden. He rode the AM large. His board and weight is bigger than yours though. So the mediums would work good for your weight If you were after another template that could work I would check out the Mayhem template. It has a decent base for drive but it is a pretty straight up and down template for pivot. That would be a good one as well. Hope that helps. Either way i would replace those carvers as they have some of the most rake out of any of the templates. I would stay away from the carver, Kolohe, dhd, js, Julian....as they have a lot of rake (the Kolohe has the least out of those) Let me know what you do and how it goes! All the Best, Fin Guru If you would like to ask the Fin Guru a question CLICK HERE https://usedsurf.com/fcs-ii-am-pc-tri-set/ https://usedsurf.com/fcs-ii-mb-pc-carbon-tri-set/ |